-------------------------------------- ICQ Messages Log For: 60667381 stranger Started on Sat Apr 01 01:53:31 2000 -------------------------------------- 2/10/00 7:52 PM stranger still there? 2/10/00 7:58 PM stranger it seems wrong 2/10/00 7:58 PM stranger yeah it's very simple software 2/10/00 8:01 PM stranger i was looking @ your web-page; is there a detail you missed to include? it's really full of stuff. interesting. i have yet to see another personal page with so much info. 2/10/00 8:03 PM stranger so what were you doing in zagreb? 2/10/00 8:05 PM stranger intersting to hear someone is learning croatian. what do you need it for? 2/10/00 8:10 PM stranger so how would you pronounce my name? 2/10/00 8:12 PM stranger good. i meant my first name thought 2/10/00 8:15 PM stranger if the last name ends with "ic" it's always the soft "ch"; but you should even know about soft and hard "ch", that's too much i think 2/10/00 8:15 PM stranger yes, exactly - diana. or even dayana 2/10/00 8:16 PM stranger i was wondering what do you consider as that "silent j"? 2/10/00 8:17 PM stranger j=y 2/10/00 8:19 PM stranger i meant in croatian only and also in german it's ALways "y" sound in english. 2/10/00 8:20 PM stranger do you speak french? or spanish? 2/10/00 8:22 PM stranger html? 2/10/00 8:24 PM stranger so you're very quiet 2/10/00 8:26 PM stranger you are and at the same time, again, you're very quiet. what would your observation about me be? 2/10/00 8:28 PM stranger ok i'm being mysterious. what i meant to ask you is: why you don't ask a question? 2/10/00 8:29 PM stranger correction: *very important one: it said photo-web-sight, not site. 2/10/00 8:34 PM stranger hm, how did you know i was offline? 2/10/00 8:36 PM stranger sorry i forgot the last point, i was distracted 2/10/00 8:37 PM stranger so what was it? 2/10/00 8:38 PM stranger ok. sight because it will feature photo-essays. so it's the way i see things...and also my sight, through lenses. what i do? i'm a student. 2/10/00 8:39 PM stranger urban planning in toronto and u? 2/10/00 8:41 PM stranger what state is wi? and where is it? i lived here for EXACTLY 8 years. 2/10/00 8:43 PM stranger hm? where's that? just bellow alberta? 2/10/00 8:43 PM stranger you have to give me a refernce to canada 2/10/00 8:45 PM stranger y 2/10/00 8:46 PM stranger ok then that would be further west not east of alberta 2/10/00 8:47 PM stranger right! so thunder bay is in ontario! why don't you say so! ok i think i know 2/10/00 8:48 PM stranger so what's in thunder bay? 2/10/00 8:49 PM stranger relatively close? it's up north in middle of nowhere! 2/10/00 8:54 PM stranger no i can't really go there now, but it's ok i know where it is approz. 2/10/00 8:55 PM stranger no wonder... 2/10/00 8:58 PM stranger well...praries, empty spaces...not much that can give you a reference point 2/10/00 8:58 PM stranger unless you spent time there of course 2/10/00 9:04 PM stranger guess 2/10/00 9:05 PM stranger y 2/10/00 9:28 PM stranger ditto good night 2/12/00 4:10 PM stranger tschüs steve, am i in your list? 2/12/00 4:11 PM steve hi there. nope you're not ...as expected, you 'disappeared' once i closed icq 2/12/00 4:12 PM steve how are you doing today? 2/12/00 4:12 PM stranger i'm good, tonite is my b-day party 2/12/00 4:13 PM steve oh, congrats then b-day today? (or was yesterday or so, just celebrating now or something like that?) 2/12/00 4:14 PM stranger yes, it was on the 9th of Feb, which was wednesday, and i'm celebrating today. 2/12/00 4:14 PM steve well then, happy b-day ... a few days late 2/12/00 4:14 PM stranger thanx! : ) 2/12/00 4:15 PM steve anything special planned for the party? 2/12/00 4:15 PM stranger special? not especially, except that we're all going out afterwards. but i gave to go now though, 2/12/00 4:16 PM steve well then, enjoy your party/evening/etc. 2/18/00 10:40 PM stranger hi steve, what's shaking? 2/18/00 10:41 PM steve hrm ... shaking ... probably some place having an earthquake ... ... or perhaps a drink (shaken, not stirred) ... but here, not much. a lazy friday evening and for you? how's it going? 2/18/00 10:43 PM stranger i'm ok, on my reading week as of today officially. i slept in this morning for a class, but i'm glad in a way because it's snowing a lot and on fridays i only have one class and that is one hour only 9-10. 2/18/00 10:44 PM steve tell me about it ... lots of snow here .... as for me, i don't sleep in ... i just go to class and sleep through it :) 2/18/00 10:45 PM stranger oh no, i hate sleeping through classes, that just makes feel more tired 2/18/00 10:47 PM steve in college -- i was in southern california -- i had some classes right after lunch, so i was full, and it was warm ... i had a hard time staying awake sometimes, even with a great prof! ... i hated it, but it was so hard sometimes 2/18/00 10:49 PM stranger oh no, i think i know what you mean because i just remember i once took a summer course and had to drop it because of it 2/18/00 10:50 PM steve it's better this semester a bit ... mostly seminar type stuff, and not right after lunch time (don't get lunch anyway, since i teach at noon) 2/18/00 10:50 PM stranger well i guess it depends on the building 2/18/00 10:51 PM steve yes .... california could be bad for it; some of our buildings here are bad too ... get too many people in them ... the oxygen count goes down ... hard to stay awake ... but, it could be worse! 2/18/00 10:52 PM stranger i guess i have to say we're lucky with that regard here in to 2/18/00 10:53 PM steve the one drawback to where i'm at is that the language depts are all in this tall, tall building from the 60s ... pretty ugly thing. the good part is that it's the tallest building in the city ... and on a hill ... so it provides a great view 2/18/00 10:54 PM stranger what city is this? 2/18/00 10:54 PM steve madison, wisconsin 2/18/00 10:55 PM stranger sounds like 'hilly' place ? 2/18/00 10:56 PM steve it's pretty flat here .... upper midwest and all, but we've got a few hills, if you want to call them that ... perhaps just 'bumps in the road' 2/18/00 10:56 PM stranger lol 2/18/00 10:57 PM steve well, it's a nice city, but i'm from out west ... i like mountains 2/18/00 10:57 PM stranger isn't there Madison in other states as well??? 2/18/00 10:58 PM stranger have you been in T.O.? it's one of the ugliest cities i have seen yet 2/18/00 10:58 PM steve there might be, as madison was a president .... as for T.O. ... nope ....my north american travels have been somewhat limited 2/18/00 11:03 PM stranger so how do you like madison? 2/18/00 11:05 PM steve it's a good city to live in. quiet, nice people, nice neighborhoods, pretty, low crime, good schools, university environment, and close enough to places like chicago so as to allow day trips and such (if one has a car)... hence, it's always 'ranked' very high. i also like it. however, as i miss mountains and such, i don't plan on staying here forever 2/18/00 11:05 PM stranger what's in chicago? 2/18/00 11:07 PM steve museums, pretty downtown architecture, sports i suppose. never really been there, myself (except to the airport) ... but, it is a 'big city' with all the brings with it ... culture stuff, restaurants, etc .. but also relatively high crime and traffic, etc. 2/18/00 11:15 PM stranger hmm..as a city planner, i'd very interested to hear specifically what is your perception of the following: a) quiet b) nice people c) nice neighbourhoods ? 2/18/00 11:18 PM steve madison is not an 'industrial' city. plus, where i live, traffic isn't *that* bad (but, the road system is poorly planned ... the layout of the lakes hurts in that regard, too), so it's not full of much 'hustle and bustle. as for nice people; people are generally friendly and helpful ... this is true many places, of course. nice neighborhoods; in town there are some quiet, residential areas, with parks sometimes, small commercial districts. 2/18/00 11:19 PM stranger hm, intersting, and sorry i forgot wher eyou are from again? 2/18/00 11:19 PM steve currently live in madison, wisconsin ... land of cheese ... 2/18/00 11:20 PM stranger i meant the originally 2/18/00 11:20 PM stranger cheese? 2/18/00 11:20 PM steve i was born in oregon, but grew up in idaho, and went to college in california. for grad school i moved to wisconsin, which is known for its dairy products; especially cheese 2/18/00 11:22 PM stranger i've heard of portland oregon? right? idaho where is taht? 2/18/00 11:23 PM steve yep ... portland.. that's in western oregon; i was born in eastern oregon. idaho is the state just to the east of oregon and washington ... 'sort of' shaped like an L or boot ... but not really ... just south of alberta, mostly 2/18/00 11:25 PM stranger what can you say about portland? i've heard that it's a great city? 2/18/00 11:26 PM steve portland is a neat city in many regards. medium-sized (about 400,000). pretty location (pacific northwest). it is surrounded by hills/mountains, which limits its growth potential, which has been good in terms of planning ... less urban sprawl. they did downtown revitalization in the 80s or so; pretty attractive, basically 2/18/00 11:26 PM stranger i'm going to ottawa on monday, and it's a strange thing to me that all canadian cities look exactly the same....except for quebec city, weird 2/18/00 11:27 PM stranger is it a 'tourist' city? 2/18/00 11:28 PM steve hard for me to comment ... i've never been to a 'city' in canada, as we were only in parts of alberta and BC ... small towns, only. as for portland; it gets some tourists (rose festival in june, for example), but not like San Francisco or San Diego by any means 2/18/00 11:29 PM stranger i was thinking to go to portland , just out of blue 2/18/00 11:30 PM stranger in canada all cities are the same.....it's so strange for such a huge country 2/18/00 11:30 PM steve it's a nice place, as i said. if you had friends there, you could have them take you places ... and/or go to the coast, which is gorgeous, or to the cascades ... very nice mountains ... that's part of the beauty of portland (close to mountains and sea) 2/18/00 11:31 PM steve you get that in a lot of places, though ... a lot of 'medium sized' cities growing in the 60s and after ... and then they all develop in the same manner ... hence, look a lot alike, one might say. definitely happened a lot in US cities that grew in the 70s/80s with lots of sprawl ... all started looking alike 2/18/00 11:34 PM stranger y 2/18/00 11:36 PM steve 1) they need to accomodate more cars; they implement similar highway systems. 2) they need more housing, they develop similar large-scale housing projects. 3) then in the 80s-90s, with certain sub-urban trends, you get strip malls, track housing and such which are 'mass-designed' and implemented in a similar fashion in many places ... hence, you get a lot of cities that look alike 2/18/00 11:37 PM steve i know that in certain parts of the US, there were reactions against 'urban planning' by cities ... it was seen as too 'socialist' (dumb dumb dumb) ... as a result, instead of urban planning by cities, you have developer-directed planning 2/18/00 11:40 PM stranger maybe 2/18/00 11:42 PM steve one notices this in comparing LA and much of Orange County, CA, for example ... orange county is a product of the 80s to a great extent ... lots of cities that all look alike; LA (as a city) developed earlier within certan confines, and although next to orange county, is quite different. then again, you have to take into consideration places like portland (in the hills) and phoenix (flat ... lots of sprawl, like denver, and now salt lake city) 2/18/00 11:43 PM stranger see, i don't know us cities, but the east coast 2/18/00 11:43 PM steve granted, i can't say much about the development of canadian cities ... i don't know when they mostly grew to their current sizes (although i know calgary is growing very quickly now ... as is the vancouver area) 2/18/00 11:44 PM steve and on the east coast of the us you have 1) older cities, 2) a more urban area, etc. hence, from DC to Boston to NY, you get almost one 'megacity' with some suburban stuff in between ... but a number of cities each with their own 'styles' in a way 4/1/00 12:19 AM stranger did you understand that movie MATRIX? 4/1/00 12:20 AM steve depends on what you mean by 'understand', but I have seen it about 10 times :) 4/1/00 12:21 AM stranger well i just saw it tonight and i don't think i 'understood' it. i think it has to do a lot with buddism, eh? 4/1/00 12:21 AM stranger or how would you tell the story? 4/1/00 12:22 AM steve better way to say it: it 'borrowed' from buddhism, but it's not that directly 4/1/00 12:22 AM steve invite me to a chat, please ... i can explain better that way 4/1/00 12:22 AM stranger well good to hear i'm on the right track 4/1/00 1:51 AM stranger good night 4/1/00 1:51 AM steve good night, to you, too :) -------------------------------------- ICQ Chat Save file Started on Sat Apr 01 01:51:44 2000 -------------------------------------- firstly , why 10 times? good ... i figured i could write more, faster this way is it that good? well, i saw it last may with a friend, in the theaters. then, my brother got it for x-mas -- so i watched it several more times. plus, a friend of the family got it on dvd ... so, maybe only 8-9 times :) ok...but still 10 times!!! i don't htink i've seen a movie that many times. anyway, one thing to think of briefly ... what is the 'main character's' name? i have no clue? mr andrew? something? keano (spelling) reeves .... anderson? yep ... but his 'hacker' name is ... new neo neo exactly ... neo ... which is an anagram for .... the tricky thing is that everything represents something... ?? neo = n e o . ... = o n e = one (and, he's 'the one') yes, it's very symolic so yeah, lot's of little 'tricky' things in it he's sort of a christ figure (afterall, he 'dies' and comes back, right, and he's the one ... sort of a messiah') actually now that i think of it i'ts pure buddhist philosophy... and ... more x-tian stuff -- the female lead is 'trinity' ok yes what i thought i missed so, it has lots of 'symbolism' insofar as it *borrows* from all over the place is how they fell i'in love? and the One is what? you're right ... some of that is missing ... part of it is simply that the Oracle told her she would fall in love with the One ... and she did ... one could argue, it was the stress of the situation, intensifying her feelings, plus, she'd been watching him for a long, long time (before they recruited him), etc. he is representing some saviour? 'the One' will allow people (humanity) to break free of 'the Matrix', so he is a type of savior figure of what? himself? of course, he had to 'believe' himself (and in himself) before he could come to be the one (or at least recognize himself as such) so oracle was wrong? no, she was right in a way ... remember, she say's that he is *not* the one ... that she doesn't know 'why', ... but perhaps he's looking for 'a second life' or something ... notice, he becomes the 'one' after he essentially dies / flatlines ... and comes back, so the neo that meets the oracle and still doubts is not the one, but the 'new' neo who believes is the one .... ...that was too quick for such a concept.. i mean that part o f th e movie.. they pack a lot in there. i didn't know he actually died. yeah ... trying to piece it all together from just a few quick references ... and the matrix is? well, he sort of flat-lined there ... on the verge of death as morpheus tells neo, the matrix is 'the wool that has been pulled over our eyes' and what does it mean when he wakes up after she tells him she in love with him? what's the logic there? see i did't like that ah ... sort of a mystical moment there ... he heres here as he is dying ... the thing was always that since the human mind accepts the matrix as real, if you 'die in the matrix', your mind takes it as real and you die in 'real life' ... so, neo dies in the matrix, but he realizes that the matrix isn't real at such a level that he doesn't die and comes back to be able to control the matrix itself sorry ... i didn't write that very well hold on let me read htat again adn the matrix represents?? well, one could say 'the matrix represents' and then something. easiest might just be to take it as the sci-fi thing it is: ... no...its a philosophy ....it's a phycho action rilm the matrix is the idea that the world that we see, breath, hear, taste, touch, etc. is not *real* ... only the 'soul' or such is real; and so-called 'reality' is an illusion (that would be the philosophical basis) ok then it's buddhism. not necessarily ... strictly speaking, it's a type of solipsism ... well in buddhism you don't exist, nothing exists....all is nothing. ah ... but here, neo and the rest *do* exist; but the matrix is an illusion, but the people are real ... it doesn't quite go as far as buddhism ... granted there is that line 'there is no spoon' ... which is the real 'buddhist line' of the movie, right? ok well again tell me well, the people are all stuck in those pods run by the robots and computers; they are hooked up with wires and such so that their brains *think* they live 'normal' lives at the end of the 20th century ... they 'live' in the matrix; the matrix is what they think they hear, see, taste, touch, etc. so, the matrix is a giant virtual reality machine so good that it can't be distinguished from 'reality' ... so there are 'real' people with 'real minds' behind it all ... a mix of sci-fi and mysticism when you say matrix is an illusion and people are real?? ok and trinity represent what? well, she is the only real female character (switch is just a bit part who gets killed off) ... she is 'trinity' ... which implies a sort of christian unity in a way i suppose, but i must admit, i can't quite fit her in very well bs i don't get it . ther'es the onther wome\an in white, eh? yes... the other is switch (the one in white); however, she is a minor character, whereas trinity is definitely a major character well it's a guy movie sort of.. in a sense, granted, it also at least plays with that stereotype (guys and computers) ... remember in the goth/techno type club ... when she says that she is trinity, and neo replies '*the* trinity?" ... she says ' what?' and he says "well, i thought ... i thought that you were a guy" ... she replies "most guys do ...." simply that she was this super-hacker in a way; he had assumed that since she was such a great hacker that she was -- naturally -- a guy ... and that means what? so, just a joke on gender stereotypes in the tech field ok i got to read something more, cos this still doesn't make sense to me...partially. but i think there' smore philosophy to it. the first time i saw it, i loved it as a fast-paced action movie with sci-fi stuff, etc. ... great music and special effects, good plot ... the more i watched it ... and morphieus? what is he? ah ... morpheus is a complex character in a way ... he's a mentor, but he's also the messager (morpheus as a form of 'orpheus' perhaps) ... he's the one looking for the savior ok and how does the One save people ? well, the one --- neo --- is able to manipulate the matrix; hence, he can change the matrix, eventually freeing people, supposedly, from the control of the computers, and hence, eventually, freeing humanity from the computers and robots from the computers? they become computers yes; since the computers have humanity trapped in those pods ..... yes but they did it themselves, eh? no, not becoming computers, but used as 'batteries', as morpheus says well, the humans 'created' the computers and were unable to control them - that's true (sort of the type of dooms-day scenario with artificial intelligence that pops up elsewhere... if you know "Terminator" and T2, or the X-men plot-line , for example) no i don't .... ah ... and what about those policemen? how are they the 'bad guys? you mean the 'men in black'? y see, they're not 'human' consciousnesses in the matrix; they are computer programs that sort of police the matrix, looking out for threats, such as morpheus and he group ... so, they take on the form of humans (after all, the matrix is just a giant virtual reality machine) so they want to keep the matrix? well, that's a good question actually. see, the computers, like all 'living' beings, want to survive ... they entrapped humans as an energy source; the matrix just keeps humans under control, so they want to keep the matrix to keep humans under control ok so there is a definite separation between computers and humans. yes, very much so .... computersa are humanized. ah ... good that you mentioned that ... see, the one 'police' guy (agent smith) points out that since he 'lives' so much in the matrix, which is built for humans, he basically 'experiences' a human environment, and he doesn't like it ... so yes, he is becoming 'humanized' in the sense that he is becoming more human, but .... important ... he doesn't like that .... he doesn't actually like the matrix, just takes it as necessary by humanized, i meant sort of like person yes, but the computer programs consider being 'human' as something 'lesser' and not as good as being a computer program .... ok, so the computers now have 'personalities' they have opinions, tastes... yep ... they are 'artificial intelligences' see ok, but i don't like the dualism there... which dualism do you mean? they are necessarily opposite or enemies of ..humans. they could be friends too eh? yes but computers call them species? ah, good question. what morpheus states, when talking to neo, is that somehow -- which supposedly isn't important (this 'how'), humans and computers became enemies, and they fought a war .... the humans destroyed nature, etc. thinking that the computers needed solar power... w/out solar power, the computers resorted to enslaving humans and using them as sorts of 'batteries' ... hence, they are no longer and can no longer be friends the computers --- at least agent smith --- see themselves as an evolutionary step *beyond* humans yes but the thing is they are not 'biologically evolving.... so i guess 'species is just a metaphor. true... but they may be -- as programs --- be improving yes. .. you are definitely correct there i dont' think that they could "adopt' to their environment same like smith says for 'humans'. that is an interesting point, and one not explored in the movie ... to what extent can the computers and robots 'adapt' and/or 'evolve' to fit in with earth and/or the earth environment ... can they 'develop' ... ? it's not dealt with at all, but clearly something that can be asked still, as the computers/robots were 'harvesting' humans in a sense, it is/was clear that they had created forms of robots that could do certain jobs and such yes that actually was so disgusing harvesting humans....yuck i was thinking what the hell happend to women?? well, the movie had 4 female characters (five if you count the woman with the rabbit tatoo at the beginning) ... 1) trinity 2) switch 3) the oracle, 4) the woman at the beginning ... plus the 'woman in the red dress, i guess yes and the intersting thing is that if that movie was some kind of a projection of the future, it was not imporved in any way...same social problems... well, the 'society' presented was 'ours' in a way ... described as 'late 20th / eary 21st century' y want' it 2069? or something? yes that's what i meant...still it's a projection of the future real or not. that was when Morpheus' 'ship' was created; the 'society' that neo (as "Mr. Anderson") found himself in was earlier, and that of the 'real' world was in the 22nd century, i think (or late 21st) true, yes but more a projection of 'our' time, give or take a few years ... the 2069 was in the future with basically no society, per se (only a few free humans), and the time of morpheus and the rest ...again, only a few free humans, and no real society, so to speak ... i don't know... one thing for sure, i s that it's too masculine, the whole movie.... no colors, too dualist, simple i guess. i'm not sure i'd call that 'masculine', though it troubles me, it seem so deep at the moment and then the story is as old as time..... yes but it wasn't "modern" in any way yet it's about computers..... they borrowed from so many traditions, etc. when making that story/movie ... stuff from cyber-punk, for example ... from religions, from fears of 'men in black', etc. the story wasn't modern. well, it was modern, in a sense, but it incorporated many traditional elements what would make the story modern, though? well it's the oldest story told sort of, just thught the newest thing: computers. instead of aliens or dinosoaurs.... the concept it's just made so complicated, yet it is really simple. good /bad... well, one way i would look at is is that at the 'beginning' with neo at the party/club and such, it's like a regular cyber-punk, feds/men-in-black versus the hackers thing ... which then changes radically and then incorporates all the myths, religious imagery, etc. well the thing there is somthing i don't get, i dont' see them differently they seem all exactly the same....hackers, just one working for gov't' and others supposedly not...but they are same... ah, but it turns out that in a sense, they're not all hackers... the computer industry, the gvt., countries, etc. are all an illusion made possible by the matrix rght... the movie, in terms of its themes, is definitely *not* revolutionary ... that much is clear. the way in which it sythesizes many well-known themes/topics/trends is quite interesting, though did you notice that no one smiles???? except who??? yep ... i noticed. in that sense they were definitely sticking to a certain cyber-punk genre thing the woman in red. ah, yes, the woman in red ... color, 'feminine', etc. ... that which is desired, but not real .... and then the rabbit woman smiled too, if i remember correctly. yep ... they played with the 'alice and wonderland / through the looking glass' theme, too i dont' get that part: desired but not real? why is she so not real? well, she was a creation -- the one character programmed her -- she wasn't a person (just part of a training program) y, but she was 'real' ah, yes, in a sense, she was real -- people could interact with her yes. so why is portrayed as 'unatainble or unreal? fantastical? i could come up with one or two explanations, i suppose. 1) she was like a centerfold -- purely a sex-object (remember the character 'mouse' looking at such a centerfold in a magazine) ... and what's with red, the color? ok, but that still doesn't explain it? there's a marilon monroe shot of her in a red dress, i think. when women dress in such a red color, the color of the dress is often called 'fuck-me red', as well why is then 'a sex object' unreal?? in other words, a short red dress ... she's merely a sex symbol unreal insofar as she's only a sex object (she *never* says anything, right? she's just to be looked at ....) yes, and how is that 'unreal' ??? only unreal compared to other characters who speak, interact, etc. supposedly to men such 'things' are Everything, mean a lot and then she's only an object... that doesn't make sense. i think there are people, women included, that behave like 'objects' sexual or not, and do not speak....have opinions, but they are Real...though.... true ... quite so. however, in the context of the movie, this particular 'woman' was created as a sex-object but you're separationg real and intelligible??? i meant the movie? i don't meant to make such a separation at all as a generalization in the movie, and in particular, with regard to that one character .... yep, basically ok i see that she was obviously a sex object created by teenageer? or it wouldn't matter the age actually? but she's not real? well, the age isn't that important, but it is a younger male ... and she's just a computer program it troubles me.... the whole matrix is ... just the idea that she's a program, yet of course everything is.... so what was the comment abou her? about the woman in red? y Mouse (the younger male), stated that 'she doesn't say much ... but, if you'd like a more ... um. ... private ...." (something like that) ... she was, however, used in the 'training' session ... neo sees her walking by, but turning around, the 'beautiful woman' has become a dangerous agent right, and he created her yep, and mouse created her / programmed her and she became an agent?? that was only a training exercise... so, not a real agent (but you remember that later agents did in fact just take over the bodies of 'regular people' when they needed to) ok so if she was an ugly woman, she woulndn't be dangerous? basically, because if she had been ugly, neo wouldn't have been staring at her (or, more particularly, at her chest, for example) hmmmmmmm see that's what i meant by film being too masculine...it's so annoying... so old and boring the 'targeted audiance' is more male, i think; on the other hand, it is not meant as a 'masculine' movie, since at almost every turn, it plays with such assumptions it's as if everyone has to turn, but if you noticed only The one turned....strange. is that correct? which part? when she walks down the street, people are all walking one way. and she just looks at him and smiles. yep, but in that instance, only neo and morpheus are the 'real people' ... the rest are just computer simulations (part of a training exercise) so real people ....... on one hand there's criticism of humans, or society and then the opposite. yes....but then it is justified.... there is a criticism of human society and what it has become or what it became, but on the other hand, they do praise 'humanity' or 'humanness' ... in contrast to robots/computers yes, so basically there's no progress. neo is seen as the potential for progress .... see i dont' even like that idea.....hero, one hero as if people need one hero to save them, a miracle sort of i'm not too happy with it, either... then again, neo isn't a messiah who saves everyone ... he is more just a catalyst (that is, he doesn't enlighten people, just provides them the opportunity to 'awaken') is that shown? will? yes ... neo will affect the matrix, and hence the 'world' as people know it , but not the people themselves that's what i meant. well ... 'can' (if not 'will'), but that's hinted at at the end (i find the ending a bit problematic) it's the 'recepe? it's not shown how that will go.... you are correct ... in fact, neo states, he doens't know where it will go .. he's just setting things in motion because i think it's just a nice story, it deson't happen like that....right. but nice try i guess with the sound effects and all that coputer stuff, oh yes, from that point of view, it was a very well-done film the filming, the sound, theother special effects were all top-notch what was the other? i saw two movies, today and yesterday and i didn't get them,funny thing. the other movie i saw yesterday was shakespear's midsummer's night dream. i wasn't paying attention.... and you can't undersand them unles you listen so i think i now understand matrix THANX! glad i could help a bit i was going to watch it again, but i don't hink so now.... well, it might be fun to watch it again, after having thought about it a bit ... i 'grows on you' in a way, i think and that 'believe' thing set him flying.... ? or what? well, by that point he realized that the matrix was only a computer program ... not the 'real world' and hence, it was not subject to the 'physics' of the real world ... he could 'bend' the rules of the matrix ... hence, he could fly they're making part two and supposedly that's where trinity is questioned to be an agent....a spy or somtehing. could be interesting ... i don't know how that will go. i would almost rather have them *not* make a sequel ... yeah they're making a third one too.. interesting i knew they were going to do a sequel ... didn't know they had done it already 2n d is now finished i htink they should make at least a little funny. since it's not a drama... i hope they do something good with it ... it will be hard to beat the original well, got back (right before talking to you) from an evening out with a few friends ... was fun and you? so what are you up to? well it's exam time for me coming up.... how's it all going? i got bunch of some free movie tikets som i'm renting movies these days. true ... getting late ... i was wondering what you were doing online so late .... otherwise i'm now bored cos i' m downloading something and it's taking forever, it's 2:40am...i didn't notice. well i had about 200g of chocolate today, so i guess there' a lot of caffene there... yum ... but that's not too good for you ... will keep you up :) i know.. i'm mad about chocolate... i *love* chocolate ... yum yum i have it usually on daily basis....it's in my 'diet' but not this much. you chocolate addict .... yes, exactly..... but i don't htink it's bad for you.... no ... it's fine ... granted too much chocolate ... then too much sugar and such ... but still and i blame my parents for it....they always fed me with it, so now i truly am addicted.... ... yeah, it's all their fault actually i think my dad is too... i believe you no it's true, it starts with a habit such as that... for e.g. my dad goes shopping and he buys chocolate for everyone.....and then my mom usually doens't eat and gives it to me.... so you have to eat it ... but my dad always wnats his..... sometimes when i crave it, he won't giv em me any... it sound so strange but it's a definite addiction. but at least i can say it's better than something like cigareets or drinking..... you've got a point, there ... and much more tasty :) but it is strange.... i actually dont' think it's sugar i'm addicted too, but rather cocoa, for. e.g i don't consider white cholocalte, chocolate.... it is different .... i'd rather have 'real' chocolate and are you an expert in chocolate?? no ... i'm not 'expert' ... i love chocolate. ... but no expert what's your fav? i meant brand? i like milk chocolate sometimes.... i like a nice piece of dark bitter stuff .... as for 'brands' .... i really like Ritter Sport, from germany (there are a couple of theres i like) yes, the swuesared-asd yep ... yummy squared ones. Milka is good. ghiradelli chocolate is also pretty good i dont' like alpen milk.... ghiradelli i don't like... really? that's not my favorite, but some of the others i really like it's so bitter and i think it's got veg. oil. i only like bittter chocolate sometimes ... depends on my mood yeah. i really don't like cabdury and hershey...it's so bad. no ... that's not very good at all when i was in belgium last summer i bought some chocolate .... oh my, it was *so* good ... i like bitter too but bitter - sweet o r i guessi should say dark chocolae. yep. you've got good taste in chocolate, it seems i usually perfer milk, but no alpen... i haven't had good chocolate in a while i guess i'll let you go now (i just can't type tonight!) thanx for all the explanations again... i hope i was able to help a bit ... !! --------------------------------------